Hi , Yes i heard of the deal in Dubai , i was staying at the ADDRESS hotel , i have never stayed at such a well run hotel , it is amazing , i read about the deal in the local papers there , my brother visited Lavagnac last week , he tells me the site is just stunning , and the work on the golf has begun , the deal is only for a tranche of phase 1 and will not be offered after thay have gone ? we were told that they are over 60% sold on the deal in the first Month and would be done by the middle of July ?
If the Address are doing the OPERATING then it's going to be fantastic , My brother has signed up for a Apartment on the deal , but i wish to use the property more than 4 weeks per year so have enquired about a upstairs apartment 375,000 and we use the 50/50 deal they are offering where i can use the it for up to 6 months per year if i want , considering the quality going into the project i think the prices are really good and i was told that a full campaign of sales sarts in the Autumn so it seems a good time to reserve the Location NOW ??? webber
There are apparently more agents promoting this development than real investors on this chat, I think it becomes useless for people who are looking for honest answers to their concerns.
Don't worry Webber I won't be your neighbour but as I'm not selfish I'll let you benefit from the experience I have in property investment when you will begin to experience difficulties with this one.
PS: Vinci could be the biggest and richest in the world they are not the one that will guarantee your incomes.
If someone says something vaguely constructive, you guys say its an agent!! What nonsense. Is this forum only for whinging? I'm talking to Sharon about a mortgage but as I'm retired and running my own business, with some BTL's, I'm not sure I fit well enough into the French mould. She seems on the ball, we'll see.
If you consider people who have been badly stung by mis-sold investments as whingers then you are talking nonsense. French leaseback does not do what it says on the tin and the hordes of people here with similar stories are testament to this. If you are a genuine investor then go and buy your leaseback. Don't tell us how wonderful everything is until you have actually experienced it over a number of years like the rest of us have.
I'm not saying it's wonderful JuanAzur, and I know all leaseback schemes don't work. Should we condemn all leasebacks because some/many have been oversold. What I'm saying is that the companies that the developers have involved have an excellent reputation in their own right. They have selected an area where the market does seem to be growing amd seem to be pulling together something that sounds a good gamble to me. With the returns they quote covering all the outgoing costs. Is the deposit at risk, yes of course it is. Is it a reasonable risk or should I keep getting 1/2% in the secure Irish bank? You pay your money and take your choice. I still think it's a reasonable punt!!
I have paid my money and taken my choice. IF you do the same you will quickly find out how accurate your speculative comments actually are (rather than telling us how wonderful you THINK it will be).
Your location here suggests you are based in th UK and I don't know why you are quoting rates from Irish banks. If you want to look at the real rates for lump sum deposits in Irish banks then I suggest you look here:
Thanks JuanAzur, yes i can get up to 3% with strings either in Ireland ot the UK.
What I was seeking was constructive suggestions about how to tell good from bad leasebacks. Are they all bad? Are all of them throwing your money away? I know BTL I don't know leaseback and was looking for a site that had a constructive debate. Look for these things, avoid these things...
I can get people that have invested in this venture and people who've burnt their fingers in others. Do i just avoid leaseback altogether, are there no successes??
I don't say that Leaseback is a bad scheme on the contrary. I have 2 LB in my portfolio and believe it is a very interesting investment but as I experienced difficulties with one in the past I think it's important to share my experience.
I've made an enquiry few months ago for Lavagnac and have to say it was looking really attractive. Now that I know that this scheme is not based on the developer, the agent or the notary in France but by the management company I'm pretty sure Lavagnac is not secured for an investor.
Why do you think the other management companies in France offer no more than 4.5% to their investors if 6-7% was something possible?
My concerns have been confirmed by the property consultant I've been in touch with over the last couple of years and by my mortgage broker and this is the reason I'm on this blog today. Not to tell ppl "don't buy this development" but to share my thoughts and let them know that it looks like what I've seen falling in the past.
I think forums are a good idea for this type of development as it helps talk through the Grey areas of a investment of this type , my point was / is .
Who apart from me is talking direct with the developer and not a agent on these type of questions being asked ? as i have said in previous postings there is always risk in any investment and 7% is a high return , but if you ask the developer the right question , it all becomes very clear why they are offering this , i will give you my question to them and answer i got from Lavagnac direct on Monday 11th Jan 2010 . Q; Please tell me why you are offering 7% and how can you see a way of paying this high return .
A; We have 663 units to sell over a 3 year build programme , the 7% is only offered on a LTD number of properties , it is NOT offered on the whole development , there is approx 150 Units that are planned for full time 52 weeks a year residence which has NO lease back on them , there are approx 120 large units that will have a profit share ONLY on them , and the new offer that is Launched in March 2010 will be very different to the early investor deal .
So you can see that the early investor has got a tremendous deal that is not repeated through the whole development and is on a very LTD number , the Address Hotel group is just amazing , i have stayed there 3 times on business now they are very professional and know what they are doing , so i am now in the deal and staying possitive with what i think is going to be the Rolls Royce of developments in the European Market .
This is the sort of debate I was looking for on forum.
What is good and what to look out for. Other peoples experiences are invaluable for this but they you need to understand what could go wrong and why. I have dealt with the developer directly and been impreesed with the clarity and sonsistancy of answers as webber says.
I'm not sure I understand what Pavel meant when he said:
Now that I know that this scheme is not based on the developer, the agent or the notary in France but by the management company I'm pretty sure Lavagnac is not secured for an investor.
I'd really like to understand this more as I've been worried where the developer of a LB also tried to run the management of the venture. I was happier when I knew the Lavagnac developer was using a well known builder and separate but professional management company. I have experience in BTL but not LB so happy to learn from others experiences and knowledge. If you could clarify this Pavel I'd appreciate it.
Just to let you know i got my mortgage offer completed on monday and accepted 95% fixed at 4.8% for 25yrs , exactly what the developer was promoting , although this has taken longer than i first thought i can understand why with the property / finance world upside down , the facts are and this was direct from the lending Bank itself , Lavagnac is about the only development in Europe that is still getting 90 or even 95% mortgages passed , the reason is the first class structure they have behind the product , management / constructor / design / and the best bit realistic pricing of the property in todays market . i am told that the Act de Vente will take place within 4-5 weeks from now and that Vinci are confirmed as the constructor who are the worlds largest builder . the 7% deal has completly sold out months ago , and the only available deals are when someone fails on the mortgage and the property is then released back to a waiting list that the developer has , as i have a friend who would buy tomorrow on the 7% deal but is 5th on the list .
I have to say I enjoyed the sentence "Lavagnac is about the only development in Europe that is still getting 90 or even 95% mortgages passed". It shows that you have a very poor knowledge of French Leaseback or believe without checking what you have been told (if you are not an agent indeed).
After much deliberation I decided to go for a 2 bed penthouse (No i am not an agent)
I have asked a lot of questions as I am a natural cynic, especially when something seems too good to be true but all have been answered satisfactorily.
The 7% return, apart from being on a limited number of properties as others have stated, can be offered as it is fixed and not linked to the construction index for regular reviews as other schemes are, hence in the long term their returns will be very good although in the early years they wont be making much, if anything.
I received an offer for 95% some time ago on a fixed 25 years mortgage, just less than 5%, and understand that the Acte de Vente will be sent out next week. Took much longer to sort out the life insurance as they insisted on medicals.
Everything so far has been very professional, they have top builders in (as others have mentioned) and also the best designers.
English
Français
Im well up in the waiting list for one, have to decide this week whether to go for it or not. In two minds still.
Hi , Yes i heard of the deal in Dubai , i was staying at the ADDRESS hotel , i have never stayed at such a well run hotel , it is amazing , i read about the deal in the local papers there , my brother visited Lavagnac last week , he tells me the site is just stunning , and the work on the golf has begun , the deal is only for a tranche of phase 1 and will not be offered after thay have gone ? we were told that they are over 60% sold on the deal in the first Month and would be done by the middle of July ?
If the Address are doing the OPERATING then it's going to be fantastic , My brother has signed up for a Apartment on the deal , but i wish to use the property more than 4 weeks per year so have enquired about a upstairs apartment 375,000 and we use the 50/50 deal they are offering where i can use the it for up to 6 months per year if i want , considering the quality going into the project i think the prices are really good and i was told that a full campaign of sales sarts in the Autumn so it seems a good time to reserve the Location NOW ??? webber
There are apparently more agents promoting this development than real investors on this chat, I think it becomes useless for people who are looking for honest answers to their concerns.
Don't worry Webber I won't be your neighbour but as I'm not selfish I'll let you benefit from the experience I have in property investment when you will begin to experience difficulties with this one.
PS: Vinci could be the biggest and richest in the world they are not the one that will guarantee your incomes.
Pavel
I agree. We have to be very careful about people coming on this forum and pushing developments, I think we all know what is actually happening.
If someone says something vaguely constructive, you guys say its an agent!! What nonsense. Is this forum only for whinging? I'm talking to Sharon about a mortgage but as I'm retired and running my own business, with some BTL's, I'm not sure I fit well enough into the French mould. She seems on the ball, we'll see.
I have to say Pavel and Juan Azar are saying what many of us have been thinking!
If you are retired and have a load of buy to lets you might find it tricky to get a French loan as your debt ratio may not be very good
Ronec
If you consider people who have been badly stung by mis-sold investments as whingers then you are talking nonsense. French leaseback does not do what it says on the tin and the hordes of people here with similar stories are testament to this. If you are a genuine investor then go and buy your leaseback. Don't tell us how wonderful everything is until you have actually experienced it over a number of years like the rest of us have.
I'm not saying it's wonderful JuanAzur, and I know all leaseback schemes don't work. Should we condemn all leasebacks because some/many have been oversold. What I'm saying is that the companies that the developers have involved have an excellent reputation in their own right. They have selected an area where the market does seem to be growing amd seem to be pulling together something that sounds a good gamble to me. With the returns they quote covering all the outgoing costs. Is the deposit at risk, yes of course it is. Is it a reasonable risk or should I keep getting 1/2% in the secure Irish bank? You pay your money and take your choice. I still think it's a reasonable punt!!
Ronec
I have paid my money and taken my choice. IF you do the same you will quickly find out how accurate your speculative comments actually are (rather than telling us how wonderful you THINK it will be).
Your location here suggests you are based in th UK and I don't know why you are quoting rates from Irish banks. If you want to look at the real rates for lump sum deposits in Irish banks then I suggest you look here:
http://www.itsyourmoney.ie/cs_group_lump_sum_deposit.htm
Thanks JuanAzur, yes i can get up to 3% with strings either in Ireland ot the UK.
What I was seeking was constructive suggestions about how to tell good from bad leasebacks. Are they all bad? Are all of them throwing your money away? I know BTL I don't know leaseback and was looking for a site that had a constructive debate. Look for these things, avoid these things...
I can get people that have invested in this venture and people who've burnt their fingers in others. Do i just avoid leaseback altogether, are there no successes??
Ronec
I don't say that Leaseback is a bad scheme on the contrary. I have 2 LB in my portfolio and believe it is a very interesting investment but as I experienced difficulties with one in the past I think it's important to share my experience.
I've made an enquiry few months ago for Lavagnac and have to say it was looking really attractive. Now that I know that this scheme is not based on the developer, the agent or the notary in France but by the management company I'm pretty sure Lavagnac is not secured for an investor.
Why do you think the other management companies in France offer no more than 4.5% to their investors if 6-7% was something possible?
My concerns have been confirmed by the property consultant I've been in touch with over the last couple of years and by my mortgage broker and this is the reason I'm on this blog today. Not to tell ppl "don't buy this development" but to share my thoughts and let them know that it looks like what I've seen falling in the past.
I think forums are a good idea for this type of development as it helps talk through the Grey areas of a investment of this type , my point was / is .
Who apart from me is talking direct with the developer and not a agent on these type of questions being asked ? as i have said in previous postings there is always risk in any investment and 7% is a high return , but if you ask the developer the right question , it all becomes very clear why they are offering this , i will give you my question to them and answer i got from Lavagnac direct on Monday 11th Jan 2010 .
Q; Please tell me why you are offering 7% and how can you see a way of paying this high return .
A; We have 663 units to sell over a 3 year build programme , the 7% is only offered on a LTD number of properties , it is NOT offered on the whole development , there is approx 150 Units that are planned for full time 52 weeks a year residence which has NO lease back on them , there are approx 120 large units that will have a profit share ONLY on them , and the new offer that is Launched in March 2010 will be very different to the early investor deal .
So you can see that the early investor has got a tremendous deal that is not repeated through the whole development and is on a very LTD number , the Address Hotel group is just amazing , i have stayed there 3 times on business now they are very professional and know what they are doing , so i am now in the deal and staying possitive with what i think is going to be the Rolls Royce of developments in the European Market .
This is the sort of debate I was looking for on forum.
What is good and what to look out for. Other peoples experiences are invaluable for this but they you need to understand what could go wrong and why. I have dealt with the developer directly and been impreesed with the clarity and sonsistancy of answers as webber says.
I'm not sure I understand what Pavel meant when he said:
Now that I know that this scheme is not based on the developer, the agent or the notary in France but by the management company I'm pretty sure Lavagnac is not secured for an investor.
I'd really like to understand this more as I've been worried where the developer of a LB also tried to run the management of the venture. I was happier when I knew the Lavagnac developer was using a well known builder and separate but professional management company. I have experience in BTL but not LB so happy to learn from others experiences and knowledge. If you could clarify this Pavel I'd appreciate it.
Just to let you know i got my mortgage offer completed on monday and accepted 95% fixed at 4.8% for 25yrs , exactly what the developer was promoting , although this has taken longer than i first thought i can understand why with the property / finance world upside down , the facts are and this was direct from the lending Bank itself , Lavagnac is about the only development in Europe that is still getting 90 or even 95% mortgages passed , the reason is the first class structure they have behind the product , management / constructor / design / and the best bit realistic pricing of the property in todays market . i am told that the Act de Vente will take place within 4-5 weeks from now and that Vinci are confirmed as the constructor who are the worlds largest builder . the 7% deal has completly sold out months ago , and the only available deals are when someone fails on the mortgage and the property is then released back to a waiting list that the developer has , as i have a friend who would buy tomorrow on the 7% deal but is 5th on the list .
Webber
If I was to distill French leaseback into one sentence it would be....when something sounds to good to be true, it usually is.
Juan
Webber
I have to say I enjoyed the sentence "Lavagnac is about the only development in Europe that is still getting 90 or even 95% mortgages passed". It shows that you have a very poor knowledge of French Leaseback or believe without checking what you have been told (if you are not an agent indeed).
Good luck anyway
After much deliberation I decided to go for a 2 bed penthouse (No i am not an agent)
I have asked a lot of questions as I am a natural cynic, especially when something seems too good to be true but all have been answered satisfactorily.
The 7% return, apart from being on a limited number of properties as others have stated, can be offered as it is fixed and not linked to the construction index for regular reviews as other schemes are, hence in the long term their returns will be very good although in the early years they wont be making much, if anything.
I received an offer for 95% some time ago on a fixed 25 years mortgage, just less than 5%, and understand that the Acte de Vente will be sent out next week. Took much longer to sort out the life insurance as they insisted on medicals.
Everything so far has been very professional, they have top builders in (as others have mentioned) and also the best designers.
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